Saturday March 14th
Court sat at 10 am.
Present – same judges and assessors.
Himatangi – continued
Mr. Williams – applied for a copy of deed of cession.
Permission given to copy it.
Mr. Williams called –
Hoani Meihana Te Rangiotau – Sworn.
Live at Puketotara. Manawatu – of Rangitane.
I heard the evidence given by Archdeacon Hadfield. It is true that when the treaty of Waitange was signed, Ngatiraukawa had the ‘mana’ over the land alleged to have been sold to the crown. It is true that Muaupoko had no ‘mana’ over the land at that time - Ngatiapa - same. Ngati Kahngungu had no 'mana' or title at that time. Whanganui and Nga Rauru tribes had no 'mana' or 'tikanga' over the land in 1840 - Rangitane - same.
At Oroua, Ngatiapa were living at Te Putaanga. I know the boundaries of Rangitikei Manawatu block. These names were of Ngatiapa, Te Auahi, Kereopa, Kipa, Te Tahana and 'Nga tamariki' and women. I was there with them. I am Rangitane. My father was Rangitane, mother lived with Kereopa, I was 'Kai karakia'. These are all I know of in that year. Ngatiapa were all 'rupeke' at Parewanui at that time. Two Rangitane were living at Te Mahau, a place below Te Tutanga - Tamati and Matiaha and the women and children. Below that there was another Rangitane kainga - Te Rongo o Kuku ai Tureta Tuhina apa Hekonaiaha, Matiu with their women and children. These are all I know of in the year 1840.
Ngatiraukawa was the tribe in occupation. Hapu's of Ngatiraukawa were occupying in various places. Some were principally here - 'Kuititanga' - karakia. If it had not been for this there would have been great numbers on the land between Rangitikei Manawatu and Oroua.
Mr. Hadfield arrived and the fighting ceased and the people turned to 'whakapono'. These were the only tribes I saw there. I saw no Ngatiawa, Whanganui, Nga Rauru, Ngatitoa or Ngati Kahungungu. There were some living with Ngatiapa at Parewanui None on the Rangitikei Manawatu block. I believe the Rangitane and Ngatiapa whom I have mentioned were living 'Manakore' had no 'tikanga' to the land then or from sometime previous. Ngatiraukawa had the 'mana' and 'tikanga' before 1840 and at that time.
Xed by Mr. Fox
It was after the year 1840 that Ngatiapa went to Tawhirihoe at Matahiwi. I went between Parewanui and Tawhirihoe not inland. Hare heard of Waituna never was there - Karangatiko at Oroua before 1840. Ngatiapa occupied both sides. Pukapuka heard that before 1840 Ngatiraukawa and Ngatiapa were living there - not since 1840. Ngatiraukawa and Ngatiapa came to get eels - Oahuru - not living there - used to catch eels and return to Parewanui.
I have signed deed of cession. I did so because Mr. Buller said I should be 'upoko' of Rangitane 'korero'. I knew that I was ceding 'mana'. Remember the disputes in 1863. Did assert 'mana' over land on the occasion of the dispute - 'pa's at Tawhirihoe and Oroua. It was a 'mana' below Ngatiraukawa's 'mana'. I was speaking of the state of things in 1840 - got their 'mana' partly from their kindness. After 1840 a little 'mana' below Ngatiraukawa. Before signing deed I did assert my large claim because Dr. Featherstone said "let the tree tribes sign to put an end to the dispute". I became presumptuous. I am not clear whether it would have been right for Dr. Featherstone to take the land.
I did write to the government claiming 5000 pounds and I do know of some Rangitane who have not signed deed of cession. Hare Rakera and his 'teina' and two women. These are all I know.
Xed by Mr Williams
Ngatiapa were not living in Karangatiko in 1840 but long before. Ngatiapa would not have come to catch eels if Ngatiraukawa had not permitted it. Different relations between Ngatiraukawa and Ngatiapa and between Ngatiraukawa and Muaupoko. Ngatiraukawa were kind to Ngatiapa with reference to my giving up my 'mana' "was the same as Wi Tako's 'mana'.
Mr. Buller came to me to ask us to sell to Dr. Featherstone. We did not go to him. I asked Dr. Featherstone and Mr. Buller for five thousand pounds. Featherstone said it is well but go and talk to Rangitane. I went back and I wrote to Rangitane to meet and discuss the proposal I had made on their behalf but they did not come. I did not agree to the terms I had proposed. I had a meeting at 'wharekura' to arrange and the Rangitane said one thing and I said another. They wished to have 8000 pounds and that Aperahama Tipae and Hunia should receive it. I then said "let not Ngatiapa take Rangitane money - let each tribe take own share" and up to the time of the payment of money by Dr. Featherstone my tribe wished Aperahama and Hunia to recieve it and I objected. I stood up and said to Dr. Featherstone "there are 3 tribes, let the money be divided into 3 parts - each take part". I heard the Rangitane did not get 5000 pounds. I got none. I heard the Rangitane got £600. Hunia and Aperahama got the 4,400 pounds and they hid it.
Xed by Mr. Fox
Mr. Buller told me that Rangitane were to have 5000 pounds but that Aperahama andHunia were appointed by Rangitane to recieve it. I went to Wellington with Tapa, saw Buller and Featherstone and was told to go and consult with Rangitane and if they agreed to the £5000 it would be all right.
It was Rangitane and not Dr. Featherstone's proposition that the money should be paid to Ngatiapa and Rangitane. My wife got £200 from Ngatiraukawa part of purchase. She is a Ngatiraukawa - related to Aperahama. Mr. Buller said to me that Rangitane should have £5000. I know that the money for Rangitane was given to Ngatiapa by the request of Rangitane. It was Ngatiapa's fault not Mr. Buller's.
Xed by court
The places occupied by Ngatiapa on the block alleged to have been purchased before 1840 were occupied after the conquest by Ngatiraukawa and after peace was made.
Reverend Samuel Williams - sworn
Live at Te Aute - clergyman of the church of England - know the Rangitikei river by crossing it.
I was present at some of the discussions which took place about sale of Rangitikei block. That land was sold to Mr. McLean in 1848 or 1849. I was then living at Otaki. I saw Mr. McLean - called on me at my house at the beginning of negotiations. He asked me to assist him in obtaining the assent of the Ngatiraukawa and Ngatitoa to the sale. At that time the Ngatiraukawa were assembled in numbers near my house preparing timber for the church. After a short conversation with me, Mr. McLean came out to Ngatiraukawa. Te Rauparaha got up and spoke indignantly at the idea of the commissioner proposing to buy of Ngatiapa. McLean explained that he had not purchased of Ngatiapa but had come to consult them - had no intention of buying it without their consent. McLean left them to discussthe matter among themselves. I advised Te Rauparaha to show consideration to the conquered tribes living on the land and that they should consent to the sale of a portion of the country - spoke of 'maumau' - they did not consent at once - a strong opposition for a long time to sale of an acre. Tribes had frequent discussions. At first said should not sell this side of Whangaehu after were willing to let the sale to Turakina. A long time before the moderate ones were listened to, who proposed to let the land be sold to Rangitikei. After Ngatiraukawa agreed to this they went in a boldy to Rangitikei to see Mr. McLean and Ngatiapa. I did not go to thata Meeting. I heard particulars from those who were there. I believe the terms of the sale were concluded. I believe the money was paid afterwards at Whanganui. I was told that the Rangitidei was then fixed as boundary and that given to Ngatiapa to sell. I was told that Ngatiraukawa had given the land to Ngatiapa and that they intended to retain this side of Rangitikei. I wastold that Ngatiraukawa told Ngtiapa that they might think to be the better for selling the land but they thought it would be poverty. You may then be glad to come to us who have kept our lands for means of support, you will then see that it would have been wise to keep the land.
The boundary was that of the land over which the Ngatiraukawa relinquished their 'mana' and which they permitted to be sold. I had strongly ruged the Ngatiraukawa to curtail their boundaries and not hold useless tracts of land. I was the minister of Ngatiraukawa. I preached to show kindness to the tribes whom they had conquered formerly. I strongly urged them to show kindness to those whom they had dealt with formerly. Ngatiraukawa treated the tribes kindly. I heard Rauparaha express indignation at the interposition of Ngatiraukawa to save the conquered tribes - refer to Muaupoko and Rangitane. Mr. Taylor was Ngatiapa's minister. Te Whatanui and Ngatiraukawa saved them. He told me that Whatanui was the first to preach peace- considered he had a vision. Whatanui first minister of the gospel and after him the missionaries at the time.
Mr. McLean came to me the right of 'mana' was asserted by the Ngatiraukawa on the north of Rangitikei. Mr. McLeans admission and assertion of Ngatiraukawa led me to form an opinion that Ngatiraukawa had the 'mana'. I was told that Rangitikei was the boundary 'mana' of this side retained by Ngatiraukawa - that is Rangihaeata and Rauparaha appeared to claim, and asserted Ngatiraukawa claim and as belonging to Ngatiraukawa themselves. When Mr. McLean came I spoke to Ngatitoa only - to those who were with Ngatiraukawa. It was considered a Ngatiraukawa question only - gathered it from the fact that the discussions were concluded by Ngatiraukawa at other time. Ngatitoa chiefs told me it was a Ngatiraukawa question. It appeared to me that the 'mana' of this side of Rangitikikei was with Ngatiraukawa. Ngatiraukawa had no thought of selling at that time - thought only of keeping. Heard that Ngatiraukawa received none of purchase money. Rangihaeata had a present. I wished to aid commissioner. There was a good deal of agitation about the question of sale. Ngatiapa wished to sell and Ngatiraukawa could not. Muaupoko or Rangitane would have had no hearing on the question. I do not think the other side of the river could have been sold without the assent of the Ngatiraukawa. I understood that Ngatiraukawa retained the 'mana' on this side of Rangitidei after the sale.
Xed by Mr. Fox
Heard Ngatitoa originally conquered country. Heard that there were battles Ngatiraukawa. Ngatitoa gave the country to Ngatiraukawa. Rangihaeata and Rauparaha were recognised as Ngatiraukawa at the sale of Rangitikei. Neither Rangihaeata nor Rauparaha asserted to the giving up the 'mana' of Ngatiraukawa. Rangihaeata urged Ngatiraukawa to drive out Ngatiapa. Both told me they abstained from interference out of respect to me. Several months taken up by Mr. McLean in the negotiations after seeing me. I did not hear that he had frequent communications with other tribes. Remember writing a letter to Thos Coldharm Williams so not consider that Ngatiapa were debarred from occupying or sharing etc - that is still my opinion. Have had experience in questions of native title. The conquered tribes could not sell without consent of conquerors - rights could not revive without defined boundaries - in 1854 - ancestor of Hirawanu.
It would have been prudent to take the signatures conquered who had been allowed to acquire rights if they were taken after those of the conquerors. It would not be wise to omit them.
Court adjourned for 1 hour at 1.45 pm.
Court resumed at 2.45 pm.
Mr. Williams called
Rawiri Whanui - sworn
Recollect coming of Mr. McLean to Otaki about sale of Rangitidei. Don't recollect the year. Meeting at Mr. William's house at Otaki near the church. Ngatiraukawa only at that meeting. No chiefs of other tribes. Te Rauparaha was there - he is Ngatiraukawa. Don't know how he was of Ngatitoa and Ngatiraukawa. He was a chief of both tribes. He had equal 'mana' over Ngatiraukawa and Ngatitoa. He had equal 'mana' with Whatanui with Ngatiraukawa.
Mr. McLean spoke of his having been to Ngatiapa to hear about the sale of land from the other side of Rangitikei to Manawatu. Rauparaha was angry with Mr. McLean, "What did you go to those slaves to talk about sale" - meaning Ngatiapa, he said they were people whom he had spared and they had no voice in such a matter, Ngatiraukawa agreed. Rauparaha only spoke and Ngatiraukawa assented. After Mr. McLean left 'runanga' of Ngatiraukawa. At these meetings was fixed the boundary of land not to be sold, should be at Whangaehu some Turakina. Rauparaha said let it be at Whangaehu, he and other chiefs - point was not decided. Another meeting afterwards and discussion about the boundary Whangaehu and Turakina. The young men as myself.
Hakaraia and Matene Te Whiwhi wished to follow advice of missionary and take the boundary to Turakina and after to Rangitidei. Proposed to fix Rangitikei as the boundary of Ngatiapa's sale. Old men stell urged that. Matene and Hakaraia pressed their point and it was at last agreed to.
It was then decided that Rangitikei should be the boundary. Then they went to Rangitikei to finally fix the boundary. I did not go.
I refer to the Ngatiraukawa of Otaki. I don't know who of the Ngatiraukawa of Manawatu went. It was a boundary tuturu for the Ngatiraukawa and Ngatiapa - that it should be for Ngatiapa and Ngatiraukawa - neither to cross over. It was agreed that all on the other side was for Ngatiapa and Ngatiraukawa on this side. It was a boundary as an 'arai' for Ngatiapa. Ngatiraukawa said "if Ngatiapa sell, let them do so". Never heard that Ngatiraukawa asked for any money of Rangitikei. Money and land on other side for Ngatiapa only and this side for Ngatiraukawa only. Rauparaha agreed. Rangihaeata at first dissented but at last gave way. Ngatiraukawa established the boundary.
By court
I heard that Ngatiapa accepted the boundary through Hori Kingi Te Anaua.
Matene Te Whiwhi - sworn
Was here when Mr. McLean came to talk about the sale of land on the other side of Rangitikei. Heard what was said. After talk, Rauparaha said to McLean "why did you go those slaves? I will not assent - my boundary is Whangaehu"
After McLean left, Ngatiraukawa 'runanga'd Rauparaha said "let Kiharoa te ahu" and others old chiefs, said, Whangaehu. Some proposed Turakina. Hakaraia and I and Tamihana Rauparaha said "let it be at Rangitikei". Messenger came and said "Ngatiapa will shut". Ngatitoa went inland of Manawatu.
Next morning went to Rangitikei, found assembled there with Ngatiapa. Ngatiapa said they wished to sell this side of Rangitikei to Manawatu. Our chiefs replied and said "let that side be sold". In the middle of the talk I said, "Nepia Taratoa, don't talk to Ngatiapa, but talk to McLean". Nepia went to McLean sid "buy that side, not this. I will not consent, if you listen to Ngatiapa and buy this side, hou te he, e hara i a au, will not permit occupation" After Nepia spoke, Te Ahu - same words. McLean then spoke "I will buy the north side" have agreed with Ngatiraukawa, will leave this side for Ngatiraukawa. McLean put it to us "Are you willing that North side be sold". All said "Ae". After him, Hori Te Anaua said "Are you willing to sell north side?" We said "Ae", said twice and on the 3rd time he said Ngatiraukawa "me pupuri tenei taha ne?". We said "ae" - said "me pupuri mo koura ko Ngatiapa ne?" Some said 'ae', but greater bulk said "no" tha was put again and the same reply made a few said 'ae' the most 'kahore'. I said to Nepia, what I did because Ngatiapa had no title to the land. Ngatiraukawa were unarmed. Ngatiapa house was full of guns but we filled the house.
Ngatiraukawa of Otaki said "the north side of Rangitikei for Ngatiapa and south side for Ngatiraukawa. The majority of Ngatiraukawa said 'no'.
By Court
Did not hear that Ngatiapa assented to the boundary, some of the Ngatiapa dissented and some assented.
Henare Te Herekau - sworn
I was at Rangitikei at the meeting when Ngatiraukawa agreed to sale of land on north side. Held meeting at Awahou. Ngatitoa, Ngatiraukawa and Ngatiapa went up. Ngatitoa and Ngatiawa went to a ''Uhunga'. Ngatiraukawa went to retain Rangitikei. Have heard that it was to be the boundary. Ngatiraukawa (170) went to Rangitikei, went in doubt as we were unarmed. Were afraid that in the discussion, anger would arise. Ngatiapa then said they would sell up to Manawatu. All Ngatiapa said the same to sell between Rangitikei and Manawatu.
We, Ngatiraukawa stood up to "whakahoki" to north side of Rangitikei. Several of our chiefs said to Ngatiapa "you will not be 'ora' by that - by and bye "ka kite i te he, ka hoki mai ki a au". Kingi Ahoaho repeated "tangata kihea! Eru ai nuku, puritia! tu whia! kia ita! ita e!" an old proverb "ka ngapu te whenua ka haere----.
Matene went to Nepia and told him to speak. Nepia said to Te Anaua "what about my fires burning here". Hori Te Anaua said "E kore e taea o ahi te tinei" then went to McLean and said "cross over to north side you and your people and sell that. To part with our ---- the boundary shall be the river from mouth to Ruahine. Te Ahu spoke to same effect. Te Ahoaho, same. All Ngatiraukawa chiefs, same effect. Sending Ngatiapa to other side and keeping this side. Hori then asked if all agreed to sale of north side of river. "ae". 2nd and 3rd "ae" "tena, mo korua tahi ko Ngatiapa tenei taha?" 'Ae ana etahi, kore ana etahi'. Those who said 'ae' did so from fear those who said no were the ----- . I heard that at the Awahou it was clearly settled that Rangitikei was the boundary. At Rangitikei the 'kupu' became 'hawhe -----'.
There was a meeting after Rangitikei at Marama-i-hoea. Ngatiraukawa and Ngatiapa and Whanganui present Turoa, Wi Te Korohiti and Hori sent word Aropata not to come to Parewanui "it isthe mouth of hell" to Nepia.
After this, Ngatiapa came to us at Marama-i-hoea. Hori Hama's dying words told by Reihana "not to interfere with Ngatiraukawa on the south side of Rangitikei". Hori Kingi got up and said "Te whenua!" "from mouth of Rangitikei to source" All Ngatiapa chiefs agreed. Hori after got up and asked for it back. Matene refused and said "let me first go home and talk to your wife and children".
This is the last word of Ngatiapa about this side of Rangitikei.
By court
All the Ngatiapa chiefs were present at this meeting.
Hori Te Anaua is not Ngatiapa. Kawana Hunia said "To kainga". Hori Te Anaua said "Ngatiapa!!! shall the 'kainga' be given to them?" and Ngatiapa stood up and said "Ae". This was repeated 3 times and Ngatiapa said "ae" 3 times. About an hour afterwards he got up to ask for it back again.
What I have stated is all that took place.
Court adjourned at 5 pm to Monday March 16th.
